How should NWOGEO proceed in the future?

Topics of interest to NWOGEO as a group.

Moderator: Steering Committee

How should NWOGeo proceed in the future?

Poll ended at Mon 2008-05-19, 02:49:09

Become Non-Profit 501.3(c)
3
12%
Continue as we are.
4
15%
Invite new members to SC to try to revive it
17
65%
Disolve the group
2
8%
 
Total votes: 26

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BlackBrownDog
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by BlackBrownDog »

I'm reading this and I'm glad this discussion is happening. Similar discussions have occured amongst various SC members for a while.

Even though I have been on SC for a few years now, I see myself as more of one to make suggestions and act as a worker bee, rather than one to initate or make big decisions. I'm glad that Jason made this topic.

I have a lot of thoughts, but I will eventually post them once I get done posting the events that are planned, since time is of the essence!

In the meantime I voted to keep SC, but I guess what I really want is to at the least, keep a group of people to help organize events.
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by sm_geo »

I'd like to see it go on as it is, but new SC members who are active and willing might keep it together and invigorate it more as an organization.

I've not attended an event in quite some time, but that's what raising twins does to my spare time. Believe me, everyday I miss geocaching, but am looking forward to getting back into it very soon on a more regular basis. I understand what jslagle is saying.

Since I've started geocaching I've been proud to talk about how nice and friendly the people are that I've met who geocache as well. I am proud to talk about the organization and how well organized it appears to be to me. I just always assumed the people on the SC and those who ran the events were the people who've been caching the longest.

I think it looks good that things are organized as organization, but again, other people do most of the work. I look forward to following these discussions.
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by jslagle »

On a positive note, I found 4 caches today.

Jason
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by GizmoGuy411 »

1) If you are reading this thread, please think about it and then contribute your ideas. This is the discussion we need to keep our group active! As one of the remaining SC members, I'm glad to see this participation! I'll try to address some of the comments made so far.

2) I vote to keep the group alive, and to bring in new blood AND new ideas.

3) 501.3 (c): Yes this should probably be a separate issue, and I have mixed feelings about it. I want my cake and eat it to. I worry about the liability and financial responsibility issues and at the same time do not like the idea of the formality, officers and all the negative implications those bring. Hopefully there are more organizational alternatives we can explore.

The requirements for our Adopt-A-Highway/CITO events are another example of how our current group structure is an issue.
Ohio requires us to submit a permit, which asks for the address of our group, and the name and phone number of someone in charge. Someone in the group also has to attend a safety briefing as well as a Meth Lab Awareness session. They also recommend group insurance. Our last permit just expired on 04/15, so does anyone here as an individual want to use their address and name on the permit? (Hydnckr while no longer an SC member offered to renew the permit again. If not, we may need to cancel the CITO next Saturday!)

4) Late posted events! I take the blame there. My time has become such that posting events has not been at the top of my list. Posting one event for every one of our twice months M&Es would take care of that problem. However we discussed this in the past and the pros to posting every month won out over the once yearly post. The reasons are buried somewhere on this site.... probably in the SC forums. If anyone wants to know, ask and I'll hunt them down for public consumption.

5) Many of the ideas mentioned so far in this thread were discussed, and never acted upon, because the SC kept getting smaller and smaller. And those remaining, myself included did not want to make unilateral decisions.

6) The SC is not as transparent as it should be because only in the recent past did we even think to address it. The group started out small enough that most members understood what the SC did. While here on NWOGEO.org is where we should define what the SC is, we never came to a consensus on how to do so. (See item #5)

7) Recruiting new SC members and a process to recruit them was discussed. We took no action. (See item #5)

8) Just FYI. As mentioned, there exists on NWOGEO.org a number of forum areas for the SC. When the SC was active, we accomplished a lot in those forums. There are also special Event Planning forums for events. Event volunteers as well as SC members have access to those forums.

9) To elaborate on current SC members, on 10/01/07 we established "Founding Members" (those who started NWOGEO)and "Charter Members" (those who were active SC members on 10/01/07). While only active SC members could vote, Founding and Charter Members would retain access to the SC forums, and were invited to particpate in SC discussions. The Founding Members are: Good Dog, jslagle, and Yogi57. The Charter Members are: BlackBrownDog, -Elenore-, GizmoGuy411, and GrizzFlyer. To improve our visibility we also added a new function to NWOGEO.org to show who the SC was. See "Steering Committee List" under Information in the left menu. Maybe I'll try to update it quickly since the last update on 10/14/07.

10) We even discussed changing the name of the SC to something else. Although the role of the SC became those who did most of the work for the events and running NWOGEO.org, the intent was to just "steer", not "rule", or "run". Hence the name "Steering Committee". If more volunteers had helped plan and run the events, then maybe fewer SC members would have got burned out actually having to run the events. Although it it true that anyone can create an event, the role of the SC was to insure that events in the NWOGEO name had the benefit of past experience and the guidance learned from past successes and mistakes. The great success of our past events is partially due to this. Our SC and EP forums are a testament to that process, as we would always go back and review the things we discussed the year before, as a guide to would know what worked or did not work, or should or should not be done.

11) Congrats to jslagle on his 4 caches in one day! Even if this is the wrong thread for that.

12) More later maybe. It is too late and I'm too tired to think any longer at the moment. Just keep the ideas flowing!
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by TeamMina »

Hello all! Having only started caching at the end of last July, and joining NWOGEO November 1st, we thought maybe we'd add our thoughts and ideas on this subject.

There are two types of new geocachers: the ones who had someone introduce them to it and help them along like sponsors (lucky devils!); and like us, naked babes in the woods. We had to learn everything about geocaching ourselves. What GPS's do, downloading coordinates, pretty much most aspects turned out to be quite a challenge especially cache placement, which we finally got into the game doing.

We investigated this "NWOGEO" logo a couple of times on-line, but didn't seem particularly newbie-friendly until we finally joined and explored most of everything here. And now what we use this site for is keeping up with what's new in this area for geocaching and what people are up to. We check it daily now but I still remember quite clearly how it felt when we started - Dazed, confused, and full of pricker wounds!

Up until yesterday, through all our geocaching, we had only come across other cachers 3 times. With us both with retail jobs, weekends off for both of us are extremely rare, so we were thrilled to make the one Maumee Meet & Greet we did. We were able to finally connect faces to the names we see on the majority of the area caches! It was great to have people to talk about caching with. Though, without caching to discuss, not sure what the wife & I would have to talk about!

We knew nothing about how NWOGEO was set up until these posts. We didn't even have a clue what the Steering Committee meant and we cannot agree more with bringing new people in, primarily new cachers. We work with a non-profit organization, and we've butted heads on more than one occassion about the subject of bringing new people in. We believe that the only way to keep any group going is by bringing in fresh blood with new ideas and to keep developing new interests in our projects. However, they see it to support those that have been in it since the beginning and deserve to be looked after first. While that may be true at a base level, an organizton cannot grow and develop if that is the main way of thinking. We're not saying that is what is happening here, since we certainly aren't in that position, but going out of our way to introduce NWOGEO to new cachers may be the best way to move forward as a group.

What I wish would have happened for us would have been getting connected to the group as a useful resource or a sponsor sooner. One idea we had was to bring together the members who have placed lots caches into a type of "Hello New Geocacher" group. When a new cacher (one we had never seen the name of before) finds a cache, we send them a quick e-mail congratulating them for finding the hobby and how to use the NWOGEO as a helpful resource for questions they may have(making sure they know membership is FREE!). Let them know to contact the cache owner if they have any other questions. The group would be available for newbies so they stick with it and have fun with it. Maybe they could even arrange dual hunts. I know I thnk it'd be fun to go out with other cachers, even new ones, to an area where we'd found the caches before. It may be just as much fun to watch others find geocaches as it is to grab them ourselves. Hopefully we could get them into TBs since that's what we're all about!

Now that we have a few caches on the map, we realize that it is as exciting to have people find our caches, as it is to find someone else's. The easier we can make it for new cachers, the quicker they will spread the word, and the more people will find our caches! The faster they get going, the faster they will create their own geocaches, and we can all race for the FTFs!!!
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by Stumpy75 »

We work with a non-profit organization, and we've butted heads on more than one occassion about the subject of bringing new people in. We believe that the only way to keep any group going is by bringing in fresh blood with new ideas and to keep developing new interests in our projects.
Nicely said! I'm in agreement in all that TeamMina has said here. (And in the rest of their post).

I'd also like to suggest that sometime soon, there be a face to face real meeting with the people who might be interested in helping. Maybe get this whole issue aired out and figure out where to go from there. E-mail is very limited in getting ideas across. You can accomplish more in 5 minutes of talking than hours of e-mails...

But please keep the ideas coming here too, as this is a great way to get the word out.
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by TheBearclaws »

Maybe the way to have the cake and eat it too is to explore what Stumpy75 said yesterday in his first paragraph. The group can't dissolve, what about the guarantee that came with the geocoins? :lol:
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by Mighty_Mo »

OK OnD'Hunt, you can relax the New Guy title. Someone with a Gold Ammo Box should not be called a New Guy. :P

Since my 1st cache was 3/21/08 and I joined NWOGeo 4/6/08. For now I will claim the New Guy title. (if that's OK) :)

My tentative plans were to attend the CITO on 4/26/08 but it seems this may not come off. Wow I just get started and the organization is crumbling. :(

I can understand there is frustration and can feel the pain through the emails. There are 468 members and to have 3 doing all the work is a bit much. It seems that the group is growing. There have been 21 new members in 2008 (including OnD'Hunt and myself) so there is new blood available. The question is how to get those new members active?

I like the idea TeamMina had. Where when a new member finds a cache (or not) a welcoming committee emails them with congratulations or condolences (as the case may be) and offers assistance in their efforts. I know I had (have) many questions about Geocaching. Let's face it most if not all the caches in the area have been placed by the NWOGeo members and they just might be watching their caches.

Being the New Guy and all maybe I don't have a right to offer the following but you can always throw bottles at me Saturday if you like. I understand the concern with passing down knowledge and the people who started an organization want to see it continue on the path they envisioned. But - excuse me -
9) To elaborate on current SC members, on 10/01/07 we established "Founding Members" (those who started NWOGEO)and "Charter Members" (those who were active SC members on 10/01/07). While only active SC members could vote, Founding and Charter Members would retain access to the SC forums, and were invited to participate in SC discussions.
There was also a statement about the SC might "invite" someone to join.
That sure sounds like a tight knit group to me. I think the term elitist was used.
Don't keep most of the people in the dark and complain no one is helping. Let the sunshine in.

If you want others to be involved in the work, you must include them in the conversation. It sounds like the conversation is going on in the SC. If we had membership meetings there would be some conversation in the meetings. However without those we have only the forum and it doesn't tell the membership much unless they go searching for info. How many people out there are just sitting around looking for something to do? Jason's email has generated an immense amount of conversation on the subject in the last two days maybe something like that could invigorate new blood.
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by jslagle »

Actually, I was unaware of the "Charter member" status. I know the founding members were left with access to the forums because of the insight they offer.

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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by Mighty_Mo »

jslagle wrote:Actually, I was unaware of the "Charter member" status. I know the founding members were left with access to the forums because of the insight they offer.
I well understand the insight they possess. The "Charter members" are the core group. They are "running the show" and well should be involved in the conversation. Just don't complain there aren't more people sharing the load if the conversation is private.

Like I said I am the "New Guy" and have only read the comments on this thread. As such my observations are only based upon what I have read. Maybe I should and kept to myself. I considered that but I joined the group to network with others that have a similar interest and would hate to see it disintegrate before my eyes.
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by Stumpy75 »

MightyMo: Please continue to post your ideas! They are great, and as someone who is relatively new, that's just what is needed! Thanks!
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by BlackBrownDog »

Here are some quotes from my Steering Committee post "The past, the present, the future" Dec 13th, 2007. I guess I really felt no different then than I do now. Updates or explanations will be in brackets.

I deleted some things about "the past" part of my post as posted here as to stay more positive. In summary, getting the former SC together for a meeting last September was hard. We [BBDs] ended up having the real meeting with 1/2 of the group, then having dinner the next week with 2 of the members that didn't make it. It was obvious at that time that those 2 groups of people needed to talk together.

Several things were discussed, we just failed to decide anything because 1/2 of the committee resigned and everyone got too busy.

The main reason I remain is that I like doing the educational presentations with parks and groups, and if given a chance to do one more local, I think John would like to do a cache event kind of like our White Star park one again (pirates) or to generally plan those kind of like the Sudoku Christmas event. I also know how overwhelming it is to plan a large caching event when you've never organized one before, and hope I can be of help to anyone planning a multi-activity event. I admitted that we don't get to as many adopt-a-highways as we would like. [Including the one this weekend, as I have to work.]
The present:

We held a great Christmas Party. Look around and see who rolled up their shirt sleeves, before and after the party. I think those are great assets to the group.

I don't even know who posts events or contacts ODOT or Schlotzski's/Panera, because who I thought did it is now gone. [later found out this GizmoGuy411 took it over]

Findlay M&E Attendance: October = 5, November = 4. Hrmm. Maybe another day/time/place??? [spring attendance is picking up]

Toledo M&E: dropped a little, as is common with winter months. Not worried.


The future:

We are making a schedule of events for the upcoming year, that will need persons to act them out. (More than the 5 caching names left on the SC list[at the time of the post]) Let's not burn out the remainder of the SC.

We have about $850 in the GDB&T (and we run into the trouble that the only person willing to hold onto the cash is a former SC member). [We need to figure out a way have the money belong to our organization, not a individual so they don't have to accept responsibility. I'm interested in an option that will allow for this.]

We have 2 big parties to plan for next year.

We have to stay friendly and proactive with the parks to see if we can get somewhere for the winter event for free/reduced. I believe that Stacey Roby (Hancock Parks) will exchange the barn a Saturday in May for a day of an educational program and CITO by our members in April. [did this last Saturday, and she did offer us the barn at Litz!]

I think that we were pretty concerned about who to include in the SC, or what to call the SC. [I remember the founding member idea, I don't remember the charter member title.]

One option is that it can remain the same, and we can get some more blood on the actual SC.

Another option is to have a true SC, that helps guide the actions of newer activities members making the decisions with the money/budget etc. (kind of like having a model with the former SC being the "permanent until you choose not to be involved" trustees of the group, and having a tech committee, Spring Committee, Holiday Committee, education Committee, CITO committee etc. The advantage to this model, one may want to only be involved with certain things and not everything, but the trustees can keep tabs on things by keeping up with the website and infrequent meetings. Planning meetings can be done with smaller groups, and members can be those that are the more flash in the pan cachers who are enthusiastic at the moment. [I've been around 4 years and see a lot of people who are "1000 finds and out"]

[I'm sure there are other options for other ways to lead the group. And, I'm not sure this one is broken, we just weren't ready to recover from a mass exodus.]

I think that by demonstrating interest and success in being able to help, people can demonstrate their usefulness on any type of "committee" or as a "trustee". [There is usually a request to help with planning (event activities or food) the spring or holiday events to the general group, either on this forum or in general by SC at a Toledo meet and eat.] One thing that is important is a desire to be in positive communication with the local park districts, because as geocaching grows, no doubt we will engage in more dialog. The longer a volunteer is around, they should be asked to be a "trustee/SC". Kind of how myself and others were asked to SC in the first place. We can just make it known that new SC members are asked based on observations of their prior volunteering with the group, likely during the social and CITO/educational events.

Do we need someone from the southern NWOGEO region to spur interest down there?


Planning:

Well, I think we need to set a time/date to get together as anyone who has an interest in keeping with some of the (not explicitly stated since our mission statement was not made official) goals of NWOGEO. I think this should happen in the new year.

I also nominate non SC members who helped [you know who you were] with this year's [2007] Holiday event to be invited to participate in whatever form of "governance" we decide on. It's best to decide what "positions" are available before the "positions" are filled. [Since we never did the former, the latter was not done either.]
Hope this all made sense...
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by TheBearclaws »

quote from MightyMo...in agreement with TeamMina "I like the idea TeamMina had. Where when a new member finds a cache (or not) a welcoming committee emails them with congratulations or condolences (as the case may be) and offers assistance in their efforts."

I've heard that this was done in the past (before my time) and I think it's a great idea too. I just happened to have a brand new person log their first find on one of my caches yesterday. I'd be willing to send them an email telling of the group but maybe this is bad timing.

It might be nice if a welcome letter was created that we could copy and paste, like our logo. Any member who gets a first finder at a cache could be responsible for sending the mail and if they don't want to they could at least notify us with a post on this website. Maybe start a sticky thread for these and some "active" person could volunteer to send the mail. The task could be rotated to other members periodically. (involvement)
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by BlackBrownDog »

I think a good number of us do that, at least if I see an early finder on one of my caches I shoot them a friendly congratualtory email and let them know about the meet and eats and this forum as a place to ask questions if they have any. Bearclaws, I think it's safe to say we will continue to be a website and meet and eats at the very least.
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Re: Feedback from Email by jslagle - Includes Poll

Post by GizmoGuy411 »

As long as we are quoting our own posts from the SC Forum, I'll quote a couple of mine with notes in brackets also [ ].
On 12/13 GizmoGuy411 wrote:
BlackBrownDog wrote:
I don't even know who posts events or contacts ODOT or Schlotzski's/Panera, because who I thought did it is now gone.
FYI. For about a year, I have been posting all the events except our last Holiday Shindig. Good Dog posted that, and I just did some editing.

- Hydnckr was the last person to contact ODOT. I'm sure he will happy to advise us on that process once we confirm the dates posted elsewhere. [He posted that we would continue to handle it. He currently has contacted ODOT for 4/26.]

- I think Yogi57 was the last person to contact Panera in Findlay.

- I have contacted Schlotski's in Maumee in the past when we have a date change.

- Good Dog has contacted Panera in B.G. in the past.

In the future I'll append my cacher initials to events on GC so that others know who created them besides just NWOGEO.

[hr]

Great post BBD. I'll comment more on it later.

As for my own involvement, I should be able to at least remain active with helping to maintain the website, since I can handle most tasks according to my own schedule. (Like at 3am)

As far as other involvement, mine will have to be sporadic at best for now. From my current perspective I don't see any light at the end of my tunnel [for myself] for until next summer. [Now more like fall or winter.]

I would definitely like to attend the next planning meeting if possible. However I feel that some issues need to be resolved sooner via our website so that we can get more dates posted quickly.
A little later on 12/13 GizmoGuy411 wrote:
BlackBrownDog wrote:
Another option is to have a true SC, that helps guide the actions of newer activities members making the decisions with the money/budget etc. (kind of like having a model with the former SC being the "permanent until you choose not to be involved" trustees of the group, and having a tech committee, Spring Committee, Holiday Committee, education Committee, CITO committee etc. The advantage to this model, one may want to only be involved with certain things and not everything, but the trustees can keep tabs on things by keeping up with the website and infrequent meetings. Planning meetings can be done with smaller groups, and members can be those that are the more flash in the pan cachers who are enthusiastic at the moment.
I like this model. My suggestion would be to allow each committee to make their own decisions, with the SC "Trustees" to only have veto power to be used when only absolutely necessary. In other words, they run it by us before it becomes public, and it no one disagrees, they can run with it. We already have the EP forums, so other committees could be handled the same. Just change EP to EC, etc.

More later.
Regarding the welcome wagon idea. We discussed that last fall too. I remember wondering if there was a way that a welcomiong comittee could know (from a technical stand point) when a new cacher discovered someone elses cache. I recall BBD mentioning that they welcome new cachers that find their own caches. I've done that in the past too, however lately I've found it difficult to find time to even do that.

I just had an idea for a "Welcome Wagon" idea. I'll post it in a new thread!
Last edited by GizmoGuy411 on Fri 2009-09-25, 23:19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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